Transcript for Here & Now for March 28, 2025

Announcer:
The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:
Wild spending and end game efforts in the state Supreme Court election and the race to be the state’s top educator.
I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” a look at the final push for candidates vying to be the next Supreme Court justice. Plus, more on the race for superintendent and a crucial referendum for Racine schools and school funding. It’s “Here & Now” for March 28.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:
The spring election is next Tuesday, and the race for a seat on the Wisconsin Supreme Court has now surpassed 2023 as the most expensive in U.S. history. Political parties, outside groups and rich individuals on both sides have ratcheted up spending that could approach $100 million by the time it’s over. Elon Musk figures prominently in the spending spree, including saying he would give several Wisconsin people $1 million each for either signing on to a petition opposing activist judges or having voted in the election. Legal action against this is pending. Meanwhile, Donald Trump has endorsed conservative Brad Schimel and Barack Obama publicly throws his support to liberal Susan Crawford. “Here & Now” senior political reporter Zac Schultz tells us if it feels a little bit like a replay of last fall’s election, that’s not an accident.

Zac Schultz:
In December, Brad Schimel held a campaign event featuring his band Four On The Floor. While this was billed as a campaign kickoff, in reality, Schimel had been running for a seat on the Wisconsin Supreme Court for more than a year at that point.

Brad Schimel:
Over this 12 months, I have now campaigned in 65 counties.

Zac Schultz:
He relaunched his campaign in December because prior to that, most of the attention was on the race for president. Even though Supreme Court elections are technically nonpartisan, the room was full of Republican Party officials and volunteers, and Schimel was not shy about connecting his campaign to the larger conservative movement.

Brad Schimel:
I’ve never seen our side this motivated or this united.

Zac Schultz:
It was clear the strategy was to keep the momentum from Donald Trump’s win in November and carry it all the way to April 1st.

Brad Schimel:
3.4 million Wisconsinites showed up to the polls to vote for president, but we expect only 2 million to show up on April 1st. That means whichever campaign can, can best retain their voters from November will win in April.

Zac Schultz:
A month later, Susan Crawford held a campaign event in Green Bay, introducing herself to a crowd at the headquarters of the Democratic Party of Brown County.

Susan Crawford:
I think you’re all here because you know how important this race is.

Zac Schultz:
The mood in this room was different, something Crawford recognized as a hangover from Kamala Harris’s loss in November.

Susan Crawford:
I think that immediately after the November election, I did sense some, some people that I was talking to just being very disappointed by the outcome of that election.

Landiran Kern, Jr.:
I can definitely tell you it wasn’t a great experience.

Zac Schultz:
Landiran Kern, Jr. was at Crawford’s Green Bay event and can testify to feeling crushed by November’s election.

Landiran Kern, Jr.:
I would definitely say when it came to myself and other students and even adults, morale was very, very low.

Zac Schultz:
We first introduced you to Landiran last summer as he attended the Democratic National Convention in Chicago as one of the youngest members of the Wisconsin delegation. He started his freshman year at UW-Green Bay, trying to convince other students to vote. But the election nearly pushed him out of politics altogether.

Landiran Kern, Jr.:
It’s like, well, why should I go out and vote? Why should I go and canvass? Why should I help anyone besides myself?

John Beauchamp:
I think coming off of last fall we were pretty well positioned heading in into this spring.

Zac Schultz:
It was just the opposite for John Beauchamp.

John Beauchamp:
With a favorable result of the November election, with Trump winning, I think that really kind of propelled the momentum forward quite a bit. And a lot of people were just ready and willing to get back out there and win again.

Zac Schultz:
John is with the Republican Party of Jefferson County and the Young Republicans. We first introduced you to John at the RNC in Milwaukee. He’s part of the political machine trying to convert Trump voters into Schimel voters.

John Beauchamp:
I think that Schimel is in probably a better place than any Republican conservative candidate I’ve seen in a long while here in Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:
While the Democrats have to worry about low morale, Republicans have to worry about complacency, with Trump supporters thinking his election was the last they needed to worry about.

John Beauchamp:
There’s the, of course, that natural tendency to want to just rest and let’s just, you know, take a little break here.

Zac Schultz:
Historically, Wisconsin Supreme Court elections are sleepy affairs, with turnout just a fraction of presidential elections but 2023 changed everything. That race saw turnout reach 41%, more than double the average over the last decade. Schimel’s prediction of 2 million voters this spring would be 43% turnout, a new record.

Brad Schimel:
I have a packed schedule where I’m out meeting with voters, talking about the importance of this race, and I’m finding that people are plugged in. They haven’t lost, they haven’t lost an ounce of the momentum from November.

Zac Schultz:
Crawford says the focus has returned for her supporters.

Susan Crawford:
For events that I’m attending now, people seem really energized and really enthusiastic. They are also, I think, nervous and afraid by, you know, just a sense that rights are under attack in our country and feeling like they want to do something about that.

Landiran Kern, Jr.:
I was like, I can’t just sit here on the sidelines and allow this to happen.

Zac Schultz:
Landiran is back on board, working with other organizers to canvass votes for Crawford, convincing his college friends that losing an election doesn’t mean you quit voting.

Landiran Kern, Jr.:
Those same friends now, they felt like it was a waste of their vote. And so it’s me trying to ensure them that I know the system seems flawed, and I know it seems like it was unfair, but that election cycle is over. We have to do what we can now, and that’s to get Susan Crawford in.

Zac Schultz:
For Landiran and John that means knocking doors and making calls, just like last fall.

Landiran Kern, Jr.:
I know that we seem like a burden to come and to knock on your door, but it’s that important. And I’ve been saying that since the presidential cycle that it’s that important that you go out and vote.

John Beauchamp:
It’s very easy to forget that the ground game matters, that getting out there, doing the old-fashioned knocking on someone’s door, making the phone calls, sending the postcards out, it all matters.

Zac Schultz:
Reporting from Madison, I’m Zac Schultz for “Here & Now.”

Frederica Freyberg:
President Donald Trump this week signed an executive order requiring people to provide proof of citizenship to vote in federal elections. The president’s authority to enact this and other parts of the order are in question and expected to be met with legal challenges. The executive order does not affect Tuesday’s election in Wisconsin, but experts expressed concern over potential voter suppression, especially in communities already marginalized like Tribal Nations. A number of tribal issues could be impacted by the Wisconsin Supreme Court.

Erica Ayisi:
What are some issues that are pertinent that you feel when you’re out in the community that are pertinent to Wisconsin Natives, that would make them want to come out for this very unique Wisconsin Supreme Court election?

Anne Egan-Waukau:
Sovereignty, tribal sovereignty, protecting our rights to govern ourselves, protecting our culture. And what goes with the water protection is our wild rice beds, our sturgeon and walleye, ancient spawning fishing areas. That’s also up that it’s a big concern for our people. I think that the Wisconsin Indian Child Welfare Act is another issue where Native children are placed with fit and willing Indigenous relatives to help them preserve their culture stability and preventing trauma, because before they were normally placed with non-Native families.

Erica Ayisi:
Are Tribal IDs a valid form of ID?

Anne Egan-Waukau:
Yes, they are. Isn’t that great? I love it. Tribal IDs are valid form. And so when we’re registering people, a lot of people want to use their Tribal ID, and that’s just awesome. I love doing that. It’s just awesome. I love it.

Erica Ayisi:
So tell me about historically, some of the challenges of getting Wisconsin Natives the messaging to vote and then actually out to vote.

Anne Egan-Waukau:
So we’ve had voter disenfranchisement where people are actually faced some challenges where their — maybe their ID — vote tribal ID won’t be accepted or they’re turned away, or the local election commission just gives them incorrect information. And I can give you an example that I experienced about. It was in 2014, I actually moved to a Milwaukee suburb, and I went to vote, and I was registering and had all my information. And she was — I was real excited and she was asking me all the questions, you know, name, date, where you live now, age. And then she wanted to know where I was born. And I told her I was born on the Menominee Reservation. And she said, “You’re Indian?” And I said, “Yes, ma’am, I am.” And she said, “You can’t vote. Indians aren’t allowed to vote.” And I just looked at her and said, “Ma’am, I can vote. I voted before.” And she said, “Indians can’t vote. You’re not allowed.” And I think she was really confused. So she went to the head of the poll and I could see she got a little talking to, and she came back and she said, “Ma’am, I just want to tell you, I was following policy procedure. This wasn’t racist.” And then I voted. She finally let me vote. I had the right ID, etc. But you know, that story I tell because people take voting for granted and we shouldn’t. But also we have people that may face this and I want them to know, I don’t care how old you are, if you’re just turned 18 or if you’re 90, if people treat you like that, you have the right to vote and you make sure you let people know that you’re not going to leave until you vote.

Frederica Freyberg:
Yet another question will appear on Tuesday’s ballot asking Wisconsin voters to amend the state constitution requiring photo identification to vote. State law already says voters must present a valid photo ID, and this ballot question would not change existing requirements but enshrine voter ID in the state constitution, making it more difficult for lawmakers to alter or undo. The author of the amendment, Republican Representative Patrick Snyder says it’s necessary to “ensure that the people of Wisconsin have full confidence in the security and integrity of Wisconsin elections.” The ACLU of Wisconsin opposes the amendment, saying Wisconsin already has one of the strictest voter ID laws in the country, creating barriers for people to vote. And that “the legislature would be precluded from permitting additional categories of photo identification and ties the hands of the legislature to respond to future advancements in technology as methods of identification evolve.”
Also on the ballot in Tuesday’s election is the statewide race for the next superintendent of the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction. In this contest, incumbent Superintendent Jill Underly faces education consultant Brittany Kinser to see who voters will choose to lead the state’s public education system. Steven Potter has this report.

Brittany Kinser:
But again, we need to make sure kids can read, write and do math.

Jill Underly:
We all want the same thing. We want strong schools.

Steven Potter:
In the race for state superintendent of public instruction, a position that oversees all of Wisconsin’s 400 different public school districts, both candidates say they want what’s best for kids.

Jill Underly:
I’m running because I want to make public education better for all kids here in Wisconsin.

Brittany Kinser:
I want us to really focus on educating our children and making sure that we are transparent about where we’re at.

Steven Potter:
But what that exactly means for state superintendent challenger Brittany Kinser and incumbent Jill Underly are two very different things. And those different philosophies for how the state’s education system should be led comes in part from differences in the two candidates’ educational experiences.

Brittany Kinser:
I was a special ed teacher in Chicago public schools for ten years. I have opened up my own school where I received an award from then-Superintendent Governor Evers for beating the odds here in Milwaukee. And I’ve also been an executive director of a charter network and a CEO of a non-profit and now I’m running an initiative to help more children in Wisconsin become fluent in reading.

Jill Underly:
As the incumbent, I feel like I have all the experience. I’m a lifelong public servant. I’m a lifelong teacher, an educator. I started teaching social studies, and then I worked my way through different systems, K-12 as well Jill Underly as higher education and in state service. I was also an elementary principal, a high school principal, and a district superintendent here in Wisconsin.

Steven Potter:
New to this election is a major debate over the standards set by the state Department of Public Instruction. A debate over how to measure student achievement in reading and math. It started last year when current Superintendent Underly made changes to the state academic testing standards. She says updating these learning benchmarks is a routine practice.

Jill Underly:
Every few years, we do change standards. We take out some outdated ones and we add new ones, and that was not unusual. I think the point that became contentious was that we had changed the, the, the grading scale because the scoring scale previously was aligned to a different test.

Steven Potter:
But Republicans in the Legislature say that Underly lowered standards to make more students look like they were doing better academically. Last week, they sent a bill to the governor requiring DPI to return to using the old academic standards. This week, he vetoed that bill. Brittany Kinser says the new standards had pushed her to run for superintendent.

Brittany Kinser:
We should not be lowering standards. That’s why I got into the race. So it’s showing more kids are, are reading proficiently than they really are, which isn’t being honest and it’s not being truthful about where our kids are. It also — because she lowered the standards, we cannot compare to how we were doing before COVID and we know a lot of children fell behind.

Steven Potter:
You’ve gotten a lot of heat for that. Folks are saying that you’ve lowered standards. This is dumbing down our students. What’s your reply to that?

Jill Underly:
I absolutely did not do any of that and I think it’s outrageous. It’s an outright lie. I have very high standards and I will always push for very high standards for our, for our students and for our staff. And we actually raised standards. When we looked at this last iteration of the test, we added standards in math and science and increased standards by adding a literacy score for our students.

Steven Potter:
Another super charged political topic that divides Kinser and Underly is the state’s school voucher system. In operation for decades and often referred to as school choice, the program allows taxpayer funds to pay for private school. Funds that would normally go to that student’s public school. Kinser is an advocate for school choice and vouchers. Underly is not.

Brittany Kinser:
I am the only school choice candidate, and I believe there should be transparency across all of the schools for all of our children. We’re talking about children who are living below a certain income, families, and they’re receiving a scholarship to attend a private school. And from the testing data, the schools around some of where our families are living are not, you know, the best option for their children. So I believe that parents should have that option.

Jill Underly:
So school choice actually sounds like a pretty nice thing, doesn’t it? Like who shouldn’t have choice, right? But really, what it is in Wisconsin is it’s privatization of public schools.

Steven Potter:
So where do you stand on the voucher school system? Do you want to see it eliminated?

Jill Underly:
Ultimately, yes, I would like to see it eliminated. We are spending so much money on it that it’s taking money from our public schools.

Steven Potter:
And to that matter of money, it is a budget year for the state. As superintendent, Underly has requested more than $4 billion for the state’s public school system over the next two years. She wants an increase in per student funding and wants to get closer to fully funding special education costs. It’s a lot.

Jill Underly:
It is a lot, but it is what our schools need. Our schools have been underfunded, chronically. They have been underfunded and undermined for the past 15 years. And it’s evident by the amount of school districts that are going to referendum and these referendums are large amounts of money.

Steven Potter:
Like Underly, Kinser wants to see an increase in general per student and special education funding. However, she says that Underly’s proposal is simply too much.

Brittany Kinser:
I think it’s unrealistic that we’re going to ask for $4 billion when that is the whole surplus and there’s many other, you know, education is my issue, but there are lots of issues in the state.

Steven Potter:
While it will ultimately be up to those in state government to decide how much the state’s public school system receives, it will be up to voters on April 1st to decide who leads the state school system, helping determine the future for its students. Reporting from Madison, I’m Steven Potter for “Here & Now.”

Frederica Freyberg:
A closer look now at turning to voters to boost funding for public K-12 schools. On April 1st, voters in 89 districts across the state will see school spending referendums on the ballot. In Racine, the city’s public schools face one of those pivotal votes Tuesday, as the debate over school choice and funding methods intensifies. “Here & Now” reporter Aditi Debnath has more.

Aditi Debnath:
Home to the state’s fifth largest public school district, Racine finds itself at the center of Wisconsin’s ongoing education funding debate. On April 1st, voters will decide on a crucial $190 million referendum that could determine the future of Racine Unified School District.

Soren Gajewski:
Well, right now, what we’re asking from our community is to allow us to hold the budget we have right now.

Aditi Debnath:
Soren Gajewski is the superintendent of Racine Unified.

Soren Gajewski:
So the budget that I have this year, the staffing that I have this year, the programs that we have right now, we want to be able to maintain that.

Aditi Debnath:
That budget, staffing and programing is all at risk if taxpayers vote no.

Ryan Knudson:
It’s kind of scary to think about what it might be. You know, is it going to be school nurses? Is it going to be social workers, counselors?

Aditi Debnath:
Ryan Knudson is an eighth-grade teacher and parent at Racine Unified. He says he’s voting yes on April 1st.

Ryan Knudson:
I think anybody would agree we want local workers. We want a good local economy and I think it starts with the public school system.

Aditi Debnath:
Just three miles down the road from that K-8 public school is a private school called Saint Catherine’s.

Gloria Schumacher:
I always talk to the kids about remember why your mom and dad want you to come to this school and remember why it’s special.

Aditi Debnath:
St. Catherine’s is one of 36 schools in the Racine Parental Choice Program, which allows parents to use taxpayer dollars as vouchers for private school education.

Brenda White:
Well, it’s a wonderful opportunity for parents now across the state to have a choice in where they would like to send their child to school.

Aditi Debnath:
Brenda White was the former president of Siena Catholic Schools, the system of seven private schools in Racine that includes St. Catherine’s. Currently, she serves on the board of School Choice Wisconsin.

Brenda White:
Very key to why parents choose a private school is because we can determine what that curriculum instruction is going to look like.

Aditi Debnath:
Educational freedom is a main argument from supporters of school choice but the program is a point of contention between supporters like White and critics concerned about its impact on public school funding.

Soren Gajewski:
People choosing to have different types of education is a part of being in a free country, but we have tax dollars that our public is assuming is going to their public schools and being represented by the school board and in the voucher situation, that is not happening.

Aditi Debnath:
Gajewski refers to the way voucher schools are funded from the state’s total education coffers. For example, this year the state’s general aid to Racine Unified Public Schools is more than $180 million. The estimated cost of the Racine Parental Choice program is more than $44 million. That leaves property taxpayers to backfill the funding siphoned to private schools through district referenda.

Brenda White:
I think it’s important to point out that decoupling and the way the state funding is — works now is a separate issue from the referenda.

Aditi Debnath:
White says the solution is to separate public and voucher school funding in the state budget. Referred to as “decoupling,” public schools would be funded with property tax dollars and voucher schools with general purpose tax revenue. White claims this would protect public schools from losing funding to private schools.

Brenda White:
It’s a win-win to both the district who would increase their state aids, and it would be a win for property taxpayers who would have that burden lessened.

Aditi Debnath:
The state Senate failed to pass the bill that would have decoupled Racine schools last year before it even made it to the floor. Critics like Knudson have concerns over further protecting choice programs in state law.

Ryan Knudson:
I think that program is — it’s very damaging to public schools when we, when we could be allocating resources to public schools to address the concerns of the community.

Aditi Debnath:
The debate in Racine reflects a broader statewide and national conversation about the role of public versus private education. But regardless of what conversations are happening in Madison, Superintendent Gajewski faces a looming $24 million budget deficit next week if his referendum fails.

Soren Gajewski:
This year, once again, referendum are showing up on the ballot across the state, including our neighbors to the south, that had a referendum a few weeks back in February that did not pass.

Aditi Debnath:
Kenosha schools, their neighbors to the south, failed to pass a $115 million ballot referendum.

Jeff Weiss:
80% of our budget is staff, and that’s typically where the cuts and reductions are going to be.

Aditi Debnath:
Jeff Weiss runs the Kenosha Unified School District, the only Wisconsin school to fail its referendum in the February election. This came months after Wisconsin schools like Kenosha ran out of the federal ESSER dollars meant to help schools with setbacks coming out of the COVID-19 pandemic. Weiss now faces a $19 million deficit.

Jeff Weiss:
The ESSER funding, the way that was set up, it was primed to have school districts have to go to referendum in order to continue to operate.

Aditi Debnath:
Wisconsin received $1.5 billion in ESSER funding in 2021. At the time, the Republican-controlled Legislature gave $0 increases in per pupil state aid to schools, counting federal dollars as state funding. In the current budget, per pupil revenue did increase by $325, but the ESSER money ran out this past September, leaving the already stretched thin public schools to cut costs.

Soren Gajewski:
The biggest cut was in staff, about $10 million in staff last year.

Jeff Weiss:
We reduced the number of buildings that we had and the schools that we operated in by seven, and that saved us about $9 or $10 million.

Aditi Debnath:
As April 1st approaches, the eyes of educators and policymakers across Wisconsin will be on Racine.

Soren Gajewski:
This funding gap is not a Racine Unified situation. It is a state of Wisconsin situation. So it is there. It will be there next year and the year after and the year after. It has to be resolved.

Aditi Debnath:
Reporting from Racine, I’m Aditi Debnath for “Here & Now.”

Frederica Freyberg:
For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSWisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. And after the polls close Tuesday, visit WisconsinVote.org for the latest election results. That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.