Editor’s note: Civil Beat reporters and editors met Wednesday with Rick Blangiardi, the mayor of Honolulu. He was joined by Scott Humber, his communications director.

The interview was edited for length and clarity and an eye towards future reporting. Civil Beat began by asking the mayor how Trump administration budget cuts might impact the City and County of Honolulu.

Right now, the state House and Senate leadership, at the behest of the congressional delegation, are saying we need to prepare a little bit more for a financial hit, a bigger hit than expected from the cuts proposed by the Trump administration. They’re even looking at a special session, especially as the federal budget continuing resolution expires in September. What are your thoughts as the leader of the City and County — are we going to be OK, at least at this level, in terms of our federal funding?

The truth is, I don’t know. But it’s not my nature to overreact to things I can’t control. My entire career and things I’ve done have always been about adapting. You adapt, you grow, or you die. And so we’ll see how we’re going to deal with it. One of the lines that I said in my State of the City speech was I’m anticipating there’s going to be some adjustment. To what extent, I don’t know. But municipalities everywhere are going have to do that, whether they like it or not, and we’re no exception, and that’s just a matter of fact.

We’re just doing so much right now with the direction we have, with the resources we have, that I’m staying focused on what we can do. I’m not so worried about what we can’t do, and we’ll deal with the impact when it happens.

Where does that money go that you get from the feds, generally speaking, that $300 million each year?

A lot of that, I think, is tied into the HUD financing and the housing stuff, with vouchers.

So it would be people that are vulnerable, people that rely on these facilities, right?

And that’s why I said I wanted to find out what we could do to make sure we can cover all bases. We’re fighting our own fight here.

The governor has been in touch with the Trump administration. The congressional delegation, as I said, has been advising people locally. Do you have much day-to-day contact with D.C.?

With Donald? Do I talk to him? No, no. The closest I’ve gotten to any of that was yesterday, because I was invited to go to the briefing —(Defense Secretary) Pete Hegseth was in town, and we were asked to go to that. Look, all politics is local. I’m so focused on the City and County of Honolulu that that’s what we’re dealing with.

There are several bills on fireworks at the Legislature right now. Do you have any thoughts on how that legislation is going, given everything that happened here in Salt Lake and the concentration of fireworks?

To me, it’s more about enforcement and stuff in the supply. I’m not so sure legislation of any kind is going to be effective. This is about human behavior, people doing things to their own detriment. It’s a real concern.

At the City and County level is that primarily HPD’s responsibility?

No. The truth of the matter is they know that the stuff is coming in through the harbors. I’ve had significant conversations with the Department of Transportation about this, and now that Mike Lambert is over at the sheriff’s office, the things that they’re going to try to stop the supply — at best, they may reduce it some. Some will still find its way here, and then we’ll see how people behave.

Look, all politics is local. I’m so focused on the City and County of Honolulu — that’s what we’re dealing with.

But, you know, Āliamanu was an incredible, painful wake up call. We had maybe a bit of a respite the day after. I noticed some things somewhat seemed to subside.

What is Oʻahu doing, have been doing since Maui, to mitigate wildfires now? Are you trimming the roadways more often?

There are a lot of things like that happening. Next week we’re getting ready to do a big cleanup on Diamond Head, for example. There’s a lot of brush up there. This stuff grows so fast. So it’s a battle against that, but you have to just be aware, with drier weather and the conditions being what they are, of what can happen, especially if the winds get right.

Maui was a really good insight locally. And LA was the same thing. The wind was sort of the perfect storm, you just can’t deny that. And quite honestly, you can only do so much. So I’m all for whatever they can get done. All we can do is appeal to people.

Humber: Can I just add to that, if you don’t mind, in the days after Maui the mayor stood up a wildfire working group that meets every month. It includes all our first responder agencies. It includes state agencies as well as some of the forestry folks to talk about different things that need to be done. I know specifically the Honolulu Fire Department has gone out a couple of times and looked at certain areas that need brush cut back. Our Department of Facility Maintenance has gone out and done that, and they’ve also pushed the state on their side to do it as well.

Blangiardi: And we stay in contact with our military too. We had the Mililani wildfire. At the time, our helicopters, two of them, could only drop 100 gallons at a time, and we had seven or eight Black Hawks and Chinooks up there. The whole thing was done through the air, dropping over 2,000 gallons each time. We were constant on that. So that’s a resource for us as well.

In your State of the City address, you were still optimistic about how ridership is going to increase once that airport station for the rail is up and running, once the downtown station is operational. Are you still feeling that way? That recent audit was pretty stark, saying the numbers haven’t been there. It hasn’t been open enough times. It’s confusing to get the pass.

I’m feeling optimistic about rail. First of all, I grew up in Boston as a kid with all kinds of transit opportunities, and lived in major metropolitan areas, and I’ve traveled the country, lived in all kinds of major cities. Just as I said earlier, change is hard. This is what’s happening. Look, the fact that people had ample opportunity and a lot of years of beating up on rail but nobody to protect it.

I still remember coming into office. The month before the prior administration pulled the public-private partnership, dismissed Andy Robbins (executive director of the Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation), announced a $3.67 billion cost overrun on a two-year additional extension, the FTA had not given the city a nickel since 2017. I had a conversation with Jane Williams, who was the outgoing FTA administrator, as well as the incoming Nuria Fernandez, and they both said, “This is the worst project in America. You better get your act together.”

And so we did. That’s why I’m optimistic. We did.

You took the lead in making sure that it stops for now in the downtown area, essentially?

Well, we truncated the line. It was how much money has been spent, how much money do we have left. If we look at the projections on the general excise tax surcharge, assuming we can get the money back from the federal government, the $740 million — we added all that up, and it came out to $9.8 billion. What can we build for $9.8 billion and feel confident about it, knowing that nearly $6 billion had been spent? So it gave us this a little bit under $4 billion left. How far can we take it from what’s in existence, and how fast can we get it operational?

On rail, getting through Pearl Harbor and to the airport, to the top three employment centers will make a difference. We’re going to really work and market that.

And we did all of that, and we had to vet those numbers with them. Went through incredible scrutiny for more than a year. They sent federal teams in here. The FTA was all over us. And everybody bought in.

I didn’t want to necessarily do interim operations to Aloha Stadium, not just because the stadium was closed. It was sort of a ride to nowhere. But that agreement on interim operations, once we were ready, was already in force and had to be done. So we did that. I felt good about the fact we could begin operating it and the number of people that are on there.

But we’ve been really focused on the operations of it in this first phase. As I’ve said before, getting through Pearl Harbor and to the airport, to the top three employment centers will make a difference. We’re going to really work and market that. We’re having conversations with the military as well right now. As we get into town, as this thing begins to manifest itself, it’s no longer out in the ʻEwa Plain, I feel really confident in what I said, everything said in the speech about transit-oriented development, the conversations we’re having now.

I can’t predict the future, as I said a few moments ago, can’t really see the future, but I would tell you everything we’re talking about is futuristic, and it’s transformative, and I have a lot of confidence that people will begin to take the convenience of it once you take them somewhere.

We weren’t taking people somewhere where they really wanted to go. As efficient as it was from East Kapolei to Aloha Stadium in 22 minutes with a 99-point something percent on time operation, which I was concerned about, the operations of it, right? Just the other day I asked, “So what’s the status of the frogs and the wheels, and how’s all that come about?” And going back to where we were, it was so crazy. And the fact that we’ve got all that worked out and we’re doing it, I’m very optimistic about the road ahead. You’ve just got to take people where they want to go.

Change is hard. I’ll just say it over and over again.

How are you feeling about public safety and crime on the Westside? What’s happening now?

In this job there is such a sense of responsibility that the realm of consciousness about crime and what can happen is omnipresent. But there’s a reality to that. And I can tell you that I knew this from my years of broadcast. We used to do research all the time in all kinds of markets, not just here in Honolulu, asking people about the primary driver for why you watch news. What causes you to tune into a newscast? It’s because they want to know if there’s anything happening that’s a threat to them or it’s going to alter their day or what they’re anticipating in their life in some way. So they want to feel safe. OK? So when you talk about safety and things happen, we’re just trying to do the best job we can at trying to keep people safe.

There’s been this effort for HPD to staff up on the Westside. Council member Andria Tupola has said that she thinks Chief Joe Logan should step down if the vacancies get any higher. What’s your thought on that? At what point does it reach a crisis that you are going to step into when it comes to the staffing issues?

Staffing police departments around the country right now is very difficult. It’s not just here in Hawaiʻi, and so we’re doing everything, anything we can, to help recruit police officers. I’m probably more focused now on also what we can do to retain existing officers. Councilwoman Tupola didn’t come in to consult with me about what we’re doing on staffing. She has no idea the conversations that have taken place in my office with Chief Logan or any of that. And so I’m very aware of the numbers, very aware of the liability, if you will, at seemingly having a shortage of police officers.

 I don’t mince words when it comes to operations of departments. I don’t.

From the standpoint of the numbers we would like, we’re just going to try to keep recruiting. Our classes right now are trending up. I’m impressed with the strategy that they showed me. They did some demographic studies. But I think it always needs to be much greater.

I’m an old coach, so you’re always recruiting. I think we need to be as aggressive as we can, because it’s not an easy job. We don’t have problems in our other first responder units like we do in police. The notion of putting a gun on one’s hip, going out the door, not knowing what could happen, or whether you’ll come home that night, is real in the minds of younger people. It’s a different time. It’s a real challenge.

Can you say anything about those conversations you’re having with Chief Logan?

I don’t want to compromise that relationship. But I tell you, I don’t mince words when it comes to operations of departments. I don’t.

Do you share council member Tupola’s idea that (Logan) should step down if the vacancies get higher?

I don’t think she’s in a position to make that statement. The police commission is involved and responsible for performance of the chief. They just gave him an evaluation not too many months ago. They evaluate him as doing really well on his leadership. So somewhere in there, we’re working on the fact that we need to recruit, recruit aggressively and improve our numbers. It’s a real concern of mine.

It seems like there’s two paths open to you. One is the police commission. You’ve got an opening now to replace Doug Chin, so I’m curious what you’re going to do about that, and what kind of commissioner you’re looking for. And then we just kicked off the charter commission, and (Council Chair) Tommy Waters brought up looking at how the police chief is hired. So what are you going to do with that?

I think the mayor should have the say, and the mayor should have the say for the very reasons we just talked about. Authority minus responsibility equals irresponsibility. And I don’t want to be put in that position for something that is so critical. This a bad model. I didn’t invent it, and I am limited in what I can do under the circumstances.

So what actual steps might you take? Let’s start with what you’re going to do about the opening on the police commission.

We’ve interviewed some people. I will tell you that we’re going to look at the commission differently on who goes on that commission on a going-forward basis. I like the people we’ve put on the commission, but I recognize that the backgrounds, the skill sets, etc. It’s not a transactional thing. It’s got to maybe have more design put into it from the standpoint of the balance of people.

When I first came on board, I thought one of the first things we should do is have a retired police officer. And I was unable to do that. And then I went to Tenari Ma’afala who was the president of the State of Hawaii Organization of Police Officers, and I said, “Give me the names of retired police officers, women police officers.” He gave me seven names, and I think six of the seven told me no before I even got the sentence out of my mouth. They were up there, majors and lieutenants. They just didn’t want to do it. So that was eye-opening for me in the beginning.

So would you be looking for someone who takes a little bit tougher line with the chief?

I’ve asked just last week to start meeting with Ken Silva, the new chair. I’ll better be able to answer that as we evolve. This is a very serious issue. I’m not denying it, and it sits on my desk. Your lead questions are about this — crime and public safety — and I don’t have a say.

I really support the men and women who are serving on that commission. They’re making a big sacrifice. I have no issues with anybody on the commission.

So I’m grateful to them when we talk about the decision making on who should be chief. That takes that conversation with a different level, but that’s not a reflection on the people serving on the commission.

So what about the charter commission?

Well, we’ll see. Look, they’re going to do a lot of work over the next couple of years. I’m really glad that the charter commission is happening during our time in office, and I’m really excited about really a good group. Diverse. They’re doing for all the right reasons. Experience. I really like that composition. But we want it to be a meaningful experience, and what comes out of it. This is a real incredible opportunity, if you will, to correct some things that need to be correcting, because times change, things evolve. Circumstances are different.

There’s some things I’d like to recommend. If I’m going to be held responsible ultimately, then I want a say — I want the say — about who’s running the police department.

This model of having a commission for public safety departments like police, fire and now ocean safety and your frustration with how the police chief is hired. Do you have that same frustration with the other departments?

That’s a good question. It’s not the frustration, it’s just the reality of it, it’s the circumstance you find yourself in. Because I’m being held accountable and I’m limited in what I can do, where if I had any other department I would deal with that directly. It’s just my experience in running organizations.

The fire commission, they do a good job. We happen to have a really outstanding chief in Kalani Hao. I’m really pleased that the morale of the department has really improved greatly, and their performance is really good.

I’m involved in every one of the interviews on what will be a five-person team, this new ocean safety commission. I’m going to try to use my influence, even though I don’t have the exact power, but I’m going to insert myself like that, because I understand that goal. These are really critical leadership jobs, and the mayor is responsible.

What would you say to people who may be concerned about the idea that if the police chief is directly answerable to the mayor, that could open that job up to favoritism or cronyism, abuse of power in some way?

That’s not how I operate. I know where I come from, from a leadership standpoint. I think that exists in a lot of other cities, a lot of other places. People can speculate, but these are really critical leadership jobs for me, from the standpoint of the role that I’m in as mayor. I want to make sure anybody and everybody who sits in those positions, not just first responders across the board, all of them are people who are at the top of their game, and they’re producing the right results.

There’s no favoritism or cronyism going on anywhere else. It’s always been, for me, who’s the best person.

I wasn’t suggesting you specifically, I just meant more of the structure change with a future mayor.

I guess anything is possible. You would hope that that wouldn’t happen. You would hope that anybody gets elected to the office in a big city like this place with so much at stake, it wouldn’t become that. I just know how I tick. I come from a place where I try to put the best people in a job.


I’m curious about the landfill. You and your team have talked about your plans to build the landfill in Wahiawā over the aquifer. If the Legislature won’t allow that then it could stay in Nānākuli.

We’ve done everything we possibly can to maintain a promise we made to the Westside — we wouldn’t put it there. I’m proud of the work that we did, from the standpoint of establishing a landfill advisory committee to examine six sites, to how we got through Red Hill, which changed the discourse to then working with the military in that process.

For all the adversity and everything else that Red Hill created, it also created an opportunity for us in working with the military when they were looking to help us, unprecedented opportunity at the highest level. I was surprised at what we were afforded, from the standpoint of access to Adm. (John C.) Aquilino and his senior team in examining sites around the island. And people were committed to that, and we did a two-year exhaustive study.

And of the three options, two of them were nonstarters. One was Lualualei, which was on the Westside. The other was Bellows. That was a nonstarter. And the third became Waipiʻo. And we were already down the road. It’s part of the reason why I did the deal in Kalaeloa to get the 405 acres of that land that was sitting around for 20 something years, however many mayors ago. And we did that thinking we could rebuild something out there really good. And it came to no avail for national security reasons.

I want to make sure anybody and everybody who sits in those positions, across the board, all of them are people who are at the top of their game.

So we’ve exhausted ourselves to find an alternative location. We may not be done with alternatives right now, although the government says they’ve exhausted that, there’s something else to look at. I’m not prepared to talk about it today.

You know, so much of this job is about trying to move the city into the time period that we’re in, modernizing the city. And there’s some other options we may look at. I want to see if the Legislature actually passes that legislation to repeal the landfill decision. I stand firm in my commitment. We’ve talked to a lot of experts. When Red Hill was built in the 1940s, (it was) single-hull tanks as big as the Statue of Liberty. Those tanks are huge, all gravity-pulled to get the fuel down the hill, the pressure on down 100 feet over an aquifer. All these many years later, from the ’40s, with the technology they had available, something was bound to happen. Irrespective of how it happened, it was bound to happen. I know that the military, if that had not happened, had conversations about wanting to double-line those (tanks). I mean, it was 100 feet over an aquifer.

The site we selected (for the landfill), which is 800 feet over an aquifer. With the technology we have today, as evidenced by Waimānalo Gulch — it’s older technology, which is similar, not a leak in 35 years — we’re going to double-line it. We’re going to actually create a hazardous waste site 800 feet over an aquifer. With the pumping that we have, the rainwater, we can get 12 inches into the ground — total confidence that we could do that. But the sensitivity to water is very different as a result of Red Hill.

After the Grants Pass (U.S. Supreme Court) ruling, you said that you were going to get 1,000 people off the streets a year. And then this last week, you reiterated that. How far have you gotten toward that goal?

We actually are well ahead of that. The idea is to get treatment, moving into permanent, supportive housing, stabilize the ones that have where we can. And I feel good about that. I don’t know the real number that’s out there. It’s not because they didn’t do a Point in Time count. Homeless service providers will tell you that they know that somewhere between 500 and 1,000 people have come from the mainland knowing that they will be homeless. Plane tickets bought for them. I think that’s been going on since Covid.

And so we’ve had an influx of homeless people. More than 90% of the people that we’re encountering in Waikīkī have been here less than a year. And that’s why I said in my talk today, this changes things. We were really focused on helping our homeless people, our local homeless families as well. Part of the reason why they go to Waikīkī is because there’s opportunity there.

From the standpoint of anybody’s going to do anything bad or whatever. And so we’re really cracking down there, and I talked about the arrests, and we’re trying to enforce it. At the same time (we want to) go about this humanely. But I do like the model and what we’re doing. It’s a problem that plagues cities across America. It used to be only on the coast. It’s now seemingly everywhere.

Do you have a rough number of how many people since August you have been able to get off the street and to some sort of services or housing?

It’s probably in the hundreds. I do not know exactly. Since we opened up the ʻAʻala respite center, probably 150 people there. We’re going to start getting a lot of traction. When Iwilei Center opens up there’s going to be four places in there. There’s some other things we’re doing. Waikīkī Vista is full. Wahiawā is full (with) groups of families. There are different things we’re doing.

We’ve approached it that way in the medical practices we’re doing. The behavioral resource center that the state opened up has been doing detox work there. It’s a real challenge.

So much of this job is about trying to move the city into the time period that we’re in, modernizing the city.

I don’t think 1,000 people is really a big number. I’m not naive to think we can end homelessness. I want to be able to deal especially with the chronic homeless who’ve been out there, who’ve been on the streets for a long time, who refuse help, who you’ve got to be able to give help to, who are suffering from illnesses, from not just being physically sick with cancers and other terminal diseases, but also people with addictions and mental health issues that we have a system of dealing with that and not having people taken to the hospital and put back on the streets in hospital gowns at 3 o’clock in the morning. We’re really getting a game plan done on that.

Still on homelessness and the response continuum. Obviously, Gov. Josh Green has put a lot of effort in the kauhale initiative. There’s been some questions raised about the cost effectiveness.

Yeah, when they had the stuff off the grid. So the idea now is how can we get it on the grid? That’s what we did with ʻAʻala Respite. We helped to have a sewer line. To the extent we can, we’re just going to get better at it.

The thing we’re doing is we’re trying to be really effective.

It’s the beginning of your second term, and so you had a whole first term to learn what things work, what things don’t work. What things did you learn that do or don’t work?

That’s a good question. One of the things we haven’t talked about is what we’ve done with our communications department under Scott and what he’s done so far with the PIOs, and the evolution of the PIOs, and what we’re doing. Creating communications team, if you will, within the city, and the kind of transparency that we want to be able to offer — not just to you folks, but everybody — was a big undertaking, and it still is, still a work in progress. The first year I came in, we were in the middle of the pandemic. That was an incredible year and experience in my life and for all of us living through that and the distractions.

And I really wasn’t able to focus on communications, but it was becoming apparent to me that the idea was just to be on the defensive or reaction or run from the media, deny, all of that. It was just antithetical to the world that I just left.

I’m not naive to think we can end homelessness. You’re not going to hear me say that.

This thing here we haven’t talked much about is the city and how it communicates across all departments. How we deal also with sensitive issues and staying open on anything and everything, I think is is a big accomplishment. And I think by the time we’re done three years and seven months from now, I think that it’s going to be really good for this place. We’re moving our communications into the 21st century. So that’s good.

There were a lot of things that we looked at and trying to figure out, “Can we do that? How can we do that?” Because you try to create something very different. These are complex problems; they require a little bit of trial and error. And we’ve been open to that. We’ve been open to risk, to try to create a risk culture. I came from a performance-driven culture in the private sector. It was always about driving performance, human performance, getting results.

To me, it was always about the human capital and its primary derivative, your intellectual capital. How did you work with the intellectual capital that you put in the room? How open were you to the ideas, to realize you don’t have to be the wellspring of all ideas. Who had the best idea in the room, matter who it came from, and what was the appetite for taking on and embracing that idea and trying it?

There’s been countless things that in that experience and that spirit, if you will, that we discussed back and forth and realized that’s going to be a dead end. That won’t go. So that’s where we’re coming from.